
Failing At Gender
- 1Maybe Doubting Thomas Was The Only Reasonable One
- 2Putting Women Back In The Story with Rev. Dr. Wil Gafney
- 3The Revolution Starts Here
- 4Exclusive First Look at ”No One Taught Me How To Be A Man”
- 5Cry it Out with Rev. Ben Perry
- 6Failing At Gender
- 7The Power to Change Our Story with Elizabeth Jarrett Andrew
- 8The Politics of Jesus
- 9Turning Pain Into Glitter with Jamie Kushner Blicher
- 10Roundup: Reading, Watching, Writing, Listening
- 11It Comes Back to Community: An Interview with R. Scott Okamoto
- 12From Shame To Pride
- 13Taking The Sting Out Of Paul (Colossians 3:1-17)
- 14The Sex and Spirit Connection
- 15The Danger of Shallow Forgiveness an interview with Kaya Oakes
- 16Shame-Sex Attraction with Lucas Wilson
- 17Taking Another Look at Paul: An Interview with John Dominic Crossan
- 18Heading to the UnYeshiva with Judaism UnBound
- 19Exploring Spirituality Through Storytelling with Marques Hollie
- 20Imagining New Worlds an interview with Eliot Schrefer
- 21Queer Affirming Therapy an interview with Ann Russo
- 22The Importance of Visibility An Interview with Chris Tompkins
- 23The Cool Christians an Interview Jeff Hiller (Somebody Somewhere)
- 24The Misunderstood Mystical Meaning of Advent
- 25How To Handle Fraught Situations
- 26The Messy Scandal of Ruth
- 27huddled together after the election
- 28Remembering Who We Come From
- 29Healing When It's Hard
- 30The Stories That Shape Us
- 31Rewrite Your Story
- 32Spirituality Outside of Boxes: Listener Q&A
- 33Cruising For God: Queering Jacob
- 34John Green Asks, “Why Religion?” We Answer
- 35Habits For Changing Seasons
- 36Love is a Verb
- 37Undoing Shame
- 38Poly Possibilities
- 39Listening to the Wisdom of Your Body
- 40Cultivating Curiosity [Listener Question]
- 41Unlearning and Relearning
- 42Holding Space with Avra Shapiro
- 43The Feedback Loop of the Divine with Rabbi Andy Kahn
- 44Brian & Shay: A Big Announcement
- 45Growing Up with Jennifer Knapp
- 46Being a Good Contaminant with Billie Hoard
- 47Conversations with Genesis with Jessica Jacobs
- 48Queering Contemplation with Cassidy Hall
- 49Finding Your Pride
- 50The 5 Minutes a Day That Will Change Your Life
- 51How to Feel More Connected to Queerness Every Day
- 52We’re Here Interview with Latrice Royale
- 5313 Alternatives to Prayer
- 547 Questions to Deepen Your Faith
- 55The Good, The Bad, The Ugly of The Bible
- 56We Come From Fighters
- 57What's an LGBTQ-Affirming Bible translation?
- 58Do You Have To Believe In Miracles?
- 59Fear & Faith On Palm Sunday
- 60Affirming Theology Vs. Queer Theology
- 61A Trans Perspective on Masculinity
- 62Love Beyond Monogamy
- 63Deconstruct Your Faith Without Losing Yourself with Angela Herrington
- 64Queering Lent
- 65In the Margins
- 66Caring For Your Body as a Sacred Act
- 67Soulful Sexuality
- 68Rigid Rules Vs. Sexual Ethics
- 69Sexual Scandal and Uncovering Shame
- 70What Makes You Bloom with Kevin Garcia
- 71Holy Desire
- 72Queer Spiritual Ritual
- 73Queering Christmas
- 74Help For When the Holidays Suck
- 75Expanding Your Idea of What's Possible
- 76Learning To Love Yourself & Others Well
- 77Listening to the Truthtellers
- 78Worship Music Is Killing Your Soul
- 79Find Your People (And Change Your Life)
- 80Is It A Relationship or a Religion?
- 81Why We Remember Those We've Lost?
- 82Moving Past Terrible Theology
- 83Tools For Rebuilding A Spiritual Home
- 84Healing from the Places that Hurt You
- 85Moving From Surviving to Thriving
- 86Start Small… but Start
- 87Recovering from Religious Trauma with Cindy Wang Brandt
- 88Red Lip Theology with Candice Benbow
- 89A God Who Gives A Damn with Candace Simpson
- 90Cultivating Joy with Bishop Karen Oliveto
- 9110 Years and 500 Episodes
- 92Bonus Episode: Queerness Everyday Challenge
- 93An Untidy Faith with Kate Boyd
- 94The Power of Polyamorous Stories with Kevin Patterson
- 95Living Your Liberation with Madison Morrigan
- 96The Heart Of A Scholar with John Dominic Crossan
- 97Centering Black Trans Experience with J Mase III
- 98BONUS Episode: Special Update!
- 99Wrestling and Dancing With the Big Questions with Rob Bell
- 100The Power of Story with Claire Willet
- 101Vulnerable Storytelling with Adil Mansoor
- 102I Followed Jesus Out with Tamice Spencer-Helms
- 103Joy In The Silence with Hannah Bos & Paul Thureen
- 104Cultivating Healthy Communities with Rev. Solomon Missouri
- 105Living Bravely with Rabbi Eger and Rev. Neil
- 106A Community of Mutual Responsibility: Galatians Chapter 6
- 107What Leads To Justice? Galatians Chapter 5
- 108Holy Discomfort and Scriptural Allegory: Galatians, Chapter 4
- 109Scripture Arguing With Itself: Galatians Ch. 3
- 110Disagreement and Belonging: Galatians Chapter 2
- 111What’s the Deal With Paul? Galatians Ch. 1
- 112The People Who Shape You (+ some Q&A)
- 113Q&A and The Importance of Community
- 114The End. Or Is It?: Matthew Chapters 26-28
- 115The Cost of Discipleship: Matthew Chapters 21-25
- 116Join The Resistance: Matthew Chapters 17-20
- 117Called To Treason: Matthew Chapters 14-16
- 118The Sky Is Falling: Matthew Chapters 10-13
- 119Jesus Changes Everything. Or Does He?: Matthew Chapters 5-9
- 120Jesus is Political: Matthew Chapters 3 & 4
- 121The Meaning of the Beginning: Matthew Chapters 1 & 2
- 122Healing Is Joy with Mary Lambert
- 123Liturgies of Silence and Speech with Cole Arthur-Riley
- 124Surviving & Thriving After Ex-Gay Experiences with Jonathan Merker, LMHC
- 125Church Is Performance Art with Rev. Micah Bucey
- 126Bodily Autonomy Is Sacred with Rev. Angela Tyler-Williams
- 127You Mean It Or You Don’t with Jamie McGhee & Adam Hollowell
- 128Abolition as Spiritual Practice with Rev. Nikia Smith Robert Phd
- 129In the Defiant Middle with Kaya Oakes
- 130Fierce Love with Rev. Jacqui Lewis
- 131Imagine A Better World with Taj M. Smith
- 132Making Space & Bridging Communities with Bishop David Strong
- 133Trailblazing for Queer Women Religious Leaders with Rabbi Denise Eger
- 134God is a Black Woman with Dr. Christena Cleveland
- 135Asked & Answered: October 2022
- 136Founder Stories: How We Got Here
- 137The QueerTheology.com Origin Story
- 138Still Scared About Sex & The Bible?
- 139Sunday School Sex Ed
- 140Doing What’s Demanded: Active Allies
- 141You Can Demand More: Active Allies
- 142Following Your Calling
- 143What Is Your Calling?
- 144Rituals for Resistance and Resilience: Creating Your Own Rituals
- 145Rituals for Resistance and Resilience: You Might Have More Rituals Than You Think
- 146Rituals for Resistance and Resilience: The Surprising Meaning Behind What We Have
- 147In The Margins: Launch Day Special
- 148Rituals for Resistance and Resilience
- 149Asked And Answered: July 2022
- 150Affirming Parenting: Queer Parents’ Perspective
- 151Affirming Parenting: How To Do It Right
- 152Affirming Parenting: When Your Kid Comes Out
- 153Affirming Parenting: Sharing Our Stories
- 154Angelic Troublemakers: Continuing The Work
- 155Angelic Troublemakers: Edafe Okporo
- 156Angelic Troublemakers: Rev. Dr. Robert E. Shore Goss
- 157Angelic Troublemakers: A Pride Series
- 158Growing up Suburban Jewish & Finding Your Faith With Rabbi Danya Ruttenberg
- 159Celebrating Jewish Empowerment & Teaching The Masses via TikTok with @milli_not_so_vanilli
- 160Conversations that Change with Enzi Tanner
- 161A Professor of New Testament and Jewish Studies Teaches Us About The New Testament with Dr. Amy Jill Levine
- 162Asked And Answered With Brian And Shay: May 2022
- 163When Empires Crumble: Mark Week 4
- 164Healing and Oppression: Mark Week 3
- 165What’s The Deal With The Pigs?: Mark Week 2
- 166The First Gospel: Mark Week 1
- 167Scary Things: Will You End Up In Hell?
- 168Scary Things: The Fiery Pit
- 169Scary Things: The Devil and His Many Names
- 170Scary Things: The Great Snatch and the End of the World
- 171The What's Next: Deconstruction Part 3
- 172The How: Deconstruction Part 2
- 173The What and Why: Deconstruction Part 1
- 174Asked And Answered With Brian And Shay: February 2022
- 175Justifying Desires with Sarah Ngu
- 176Intersections with Rev. Dr. Pamela Lightsey
- 177Music And The Journey Of Coming Out with Trey Pearson
- 178Loving Deeply with The Triad Fam
- 179Using Humor as Protection with Amir Yass
- 180Public Witness Not Private Suffering with Emmy Kegler
- 181Gender is a Calling with Justin Sabia-Tanis
- 182Seeing The Divine in Music with Jess Garcia
- 183The Prophet Speaks with Joy Ladin
- 184Experiencing the Divine Outside the Church with Alicia T. Crosby
- 185Journey to Babylon with Namoli Brennet
- 186Faith Merges with Justice & Design with Asher Kolieboi
- 187Deconstruct and Unhook from Unhealthy Theologies with Crystal Cheatham
- 188We Can Choose Our Family - Ruth 1:1-18
- 189Don’t You Know That You Don’t Belong To Yourself? - 1 Corinthians 6:12-20
- 190Movement Is Messy - Mark 10:35-45
- 191Get A Little Taste of Eternal Life - Mark 10:17-31
- 192Mythology vs. History - Genesis 2:18-24
- 193To Disrupt the People is To Disrupt God - Mark 9:38-50
- 194Be One With The Marginalized - Mark 9:30-37
- 195Take Your Time To Figure Out Who You Are First - James 3:1-12
- 196Do You Have a Good Reputation? - Proverbs 22:1-2, 8-9, 22-23
- 197Baptized in Tear Gas an interview with Elle Dowd
- 198God did not give you a spirit of timidity! [Summer Series]
- 199Can you be anti-LGBTQ and a Christian? [Summer Series]
- 200Jesus Comes Out [Summer Series]
- 201How do you justify Romans? [Summer Series]
- 202Even When Your Family Doesn't Get It [Summer Series]
- 203Faith In Action & Costly Conversion [Summer Series]
- 204Faith & Justice [Summer Series]
- 205Don’t Ask Permission [Summer Series]
- 206God Trusts You To Pick Your Partner [Summer Series]
- 207Jesus Steals A Donkey [Summer Series]
- 208Leaving Can Be Good For You & Them [Summer Series]
- 209When It All Began: Brian’s Story Part 2
- 210When It All Began: Brian’s Story
- 211Dry Bones Back to Life
- 212Transitioning My Body & Faith
- 213Push The Boundaries - Acts 10:44-48
- 214Unhook From The Fear of Hell - 1 John 4:7-21
- 215Love with Action and Truth - 1 John 3:16-24
- 216The Resurrection and Humanity - Luke 24:36-48
- 217Queering Your Family - Psalm 133
- 218Queering The Resurrection
- 219Palm Sunday: A Queer Reflection
- 220COVID Self-Care: One Year Later with Rev. Jonathan Vanderbeck, LCSW
- 221Divine Lover - John 3:14-21
- 222Queering the 10 Commandments - Exodus 20:1-17
- 223Walk Into Your New Name - Genesis 17:1-7, 15-16
- 224Jesus, Suffering & Salvation - 1 Peter 3:18-22
- 225God, Praying & Anxiety - Matthew 6:5-14
- 226God is Everywhere - Isaiah 40:21-31
- 227The Divine Authority - Mark 1:21-28
- 228The Catalyst - Mark 1:14-20
- 229My Temple My Rules - 1 Corinthians 6:12-20
- 230Grow And Change - Acts 19:1-7
- 231Body & Flesh Matters - John 1:1-18
- 232Queer Theology Holiday Special
- 233The Hymn About Power - Luke 1:46b-55
- 234What is Good & Right - 1 Thessalonians 5:16-24
- 235What Type of Ancestor Are You? - 2 Peter 3:8-15
- 236Wake Up and Pay Attention - Psalm 80:1-7, 17-19
- 237Sheep and Goats - Matthew 25:31-46
- 238Gender Expansive Leadership - Judges 4:1-7
- 239Wisdom Is She - Wisdom of Sol 6:12-20
- 240Tuning Fork - Revelation 7:9-17
- 241Leviticus’ God - Leviticus 19:1-2, 15-18
- 242It’s a Trap! - Matthew 22:15-22
- 243Coming Out Day: A Comforting Word - Philippians 4:1-9
- 244Safety vs. Being Saved - Philippians 3:4-14
- 245The Uncomfortable Path to Healing - Exodus 17:1-7
- 246Is Your Anger a Good Thing? - Jonah 3:10-4:11
- 247Get Off The Hamster Wheel - Romans 14:1-12
- 248Queer Sacred Space #throwback
- 249The Power of Queer Community - Romans 12:9-21
- 250Blackness, Queerness & Following Christ with Indigo and Beatrice
- 251What Is Our Salvation? - Isaiah 56:1, 6-8 & Romans 11:1-2a, 29-32
- 252What Do You Dream Of? - Genesis 37:1-4, 12-28
- 253Miracle or Mutual Aid - Matthew 14:13-21
- 254Learn & Change the World - 1 Kings 3:5-12
- 255Step Into Fear, Be Brave - Romans 8:12-25
- 256The Lamp, The Light, The Path - Psalm 119:105-112
- 257The Bible is Sexy AF - Song of Solomon 2:8-13
- 258Responding To The Call - Jeremiah 28:5-9 & Matthew 10:40-42
- 259Prophetic Troublemaking - Matthew 10:26-39
- 260Stand Firm and Be Saved - Matthew 9:35,10:8-23
- 261Original Blessing, Not Sin - 2 Corinthians 13:11-13 & Matthew 28:16-20
- 262Christianity Checklist? - Acts 2:1-21
- 263From Worship Songs to Protest Hymns - Psalm 68:1-10, 32-35
- 264Your Inner Divinity - John 14:15-21
- 265Queerness is a Cornerstone - 1 Peter 2:2-10
- 266Queerness is Caring - Acts 2:42-47
- 267Breaking the Bread - Luke 24:13-35
- 268The Transformational Power of Queering Scripture - John 20:19-31
- 269Women Take Center Stage - Matthew 28:1-10
- 270Jesus Gets Hangry - Mark 11:12-14
- 271The Humanity of Jesus - John 11:1-45
- 272Walking Through the Dark Valley - Psalm 23
- 273Safe in Stuckness - Exodus 17:1-7
- 274When Jesus Came Out - Matthew 17:1-9
- 275Knowledge Not Shame - Genesis 2:15-17; 3:1-7
- 276Crafty Myths and Inner Wisdom - 2 Peter 1:16-21
- 277Jesus & the Male Gaze - Matthew 5:21-37
- 278Sex & Love with Sarah - 1 Corinthians 13:4-8
- 279What Does God Require? - Micah 6:1-8
- 280Unity In All? - 1 Corinthians 1:10-18
- 281The Gospel of Queer Community - John 1:29-42
- 282The Biblical Origins of Queer Theology - Isaiah 42:1-9, Matthew 3:13-17
- 283New Year Goals, Sexual Resolutions, Trans Theology (and more!)
- 284What Child Is This? Matthew 1:18-24
- 285Mary’s understanding of God – Luke 1:47-55
- 286Waiting on Advent - Isaiah 35:1-10, Psalm 146:5-10
- 287Advent: What Are We Waiting For?
- 2885 Ways to Observe Advent (and how queerness is part of that)
- 289Is it ok to lie? + Winter Is Coming
- 290Finding God in Silence & Singleness, feat Caryn Saxon – John 15:12-14, Matthew 18:20
- 291A Place to Belong feat Brandon Beck – Jonah 2:5-7
- 292Divine in the Differences, feat Indigo Rose – Romans 1:24 – 2:8, 1 Corinthians 12:12-31
- 293#300: LGBTQ Christian Progress – Matthew 7, Genesis 32:22-31
- 294Embarrass Them Into the Kingdom – Luke 18:1-8
- 295Settling Down & Surviving – Jeremiah 29:1, 4-7
- 296Gender, Shame, and Faith – 2 Timothy 1:1-14
- 297Beautiful Reminder – Psalm 91:1-6, 14-16; Amos 6:1a, 4-7; Psalm 146
- 298Q&A + Book Giveaway
- 299Being Found – Luke 15:1-10
- 300What does it mean to choose life? – Deuteronomy 30:15-20
- 301What It Means to Honor Marriage (and other important lessons) – Hebrews 13:1-8
- 302Take Care – Isaiah 58:9-14
- 303Context Matters – Hebrews 11:29-12:2
- 304God is in the Margins – John 4:5-42
- 305Sexual Immorality – Colossians 3:1-11
- 306Sodom & Gomorrah – Genesis 18:20-32
- 307God Gets Pissed at Our Politics – Amos 8:1-12
- 308Trust Yourself – Deuteronomy 30:9-14
- 309What really matters – Galatians 6:1-16
- 31050 Years of Stonewall – Pride 2019
- 311Depressed – Psalm 42-43
- 312Holy Suffering – Romans 5:1-5
- 313Jesus Brought Receipts, You Can Too – John 14:8-17, 25-27
- 314What Does it Mean to be Saved? – Acts 16:16-34
- 315Jesus Heals (Literally!) – John 5:1-9
- 316God Is Still Speaking – Acts 11:1-18
- 317Those who came before us – Revelation 7:9-17
- 318What happens when the excitement fades? – John 21:1-19
- 319Easter Q&A Part 2
- 320Easter Q&A
- 321Easter Every Year – Why We Follow The Lectionary
- 322Extraordinary – John 12:1-8
- 323The Extravagant Love of God – Luke 15:1-3, 11-32
- 324All who are thirsty, come to the water – Isaiah 55:1-9
- 325Prophets in our midst – Luke 13:31-35
- 326Who was scripture written for? – Deuteronomy 26:1-11
- 327Sometimes the Bible is wrong – 1 Corinthians 15:51-58
- 328Interpersonal Dynamics & Activist Strategies – Luke 6:27-38
- 329God has an agenda – Luke 6:17-26
- 330LIVE from Q Christian Fellowship Conference with Sarah Ngu of Church Clarity – Acts 17:26-27
- 331How to be a more effective prophet – Luke 4:21-30
- 332The story of what God has done among us – Luke 1:1-4, 4:14-21
- 333Marriage Metaphors – Isaiah 62:1-5
- 334Getting Personal + 2019 Preview
- 335Activist Epiphanies – Matthew 2:1-12
- 336Closing out the year, preparing for the new year
- 337Jesus’s Birth: Then & Now
- 338How to escape angry judgement – Luke 3:7-14
- 339How do we know God’s will? – Philippians 1:9-11
- 340Christ the King
- 341Transgender Day of Remembrance 2018
- 342Your identity matters – Jeremiah 31:7-9
- 343Seduction – Ruth 3:1-5, 4:13-17
- 344Making Meaning – Job 38:1-7, 34-38
- 345The Greatest Command Is Old – Deuteronomy 6:1-9 & Mark 12:28-34
- 346How do we relate to God? – Hebrews 4:12-16
- 347God trusts you to pick your partner – Genesis 2:18-24
- 348Biblical Allyship – Mark 9:38-50
- 349Queer Sacred Spaces: Ours & Yours
- 350Words Matter – James 3:1-12
- 351Immigrants are healed & Jesus changes his mind – Mark 7:24-37
- 352Does this offend you? John 6:60-69 #throwback
- 353Wisdom is a Woman – Proverbs 9:1-6 #throwback
- 354It’s Okay to Not be Okay – 1 Kings 19:4-8 #throwback
- 355Use Your Gifts – Ephesians 4:1-16 #throwback
- 356Do the Easy Thing – 2 Kings 5:1-15 #throwback
- 357With His Body – Ephesians 2:11-22 #throwback
- 358I Am Not A Prophet – Amos 7:12-15 #Throwback
- 359Leaving Can Be Good For You & Them – Mark 6:1-13
- 360Forgiveness is with you – Psalm 130
- 361Bringing About The Kingdom: Mark 4:26-34
- 362Even When Your Family Doesn’t Get It: Mark 3:20-35 – Throwback
- 363When liberation turns into oppression – 1 Samuel 8
- 364Christians & LGBT people carry death in our bodies – 2 Corinthians 4:5-12
- 365How to enter the Kingdom of God – John 3:1-17
- 366Bodies Matter – Ezekiel 37:1-14 – #Throwback
- 367The Truly Happy Person – Psalm 1
- 368Divine Revelation & Respectability Politics – Acts 10
- 369Something new is happening here – Acts 8:26 – 40
- 370This is his commandment… – 1 John 3:16-24
- 371Faith Into Praxis, Politics Into Activism
- 372How to handle tough feelings on your faith journey
- 373Holy Week 2018
- 374Crucify him! – Mark 15:1-15
- 375“They tried to bury us…” – John 12:20-33
- 376The Politics of Jesus
- 377Collaborating with the empire – John 2:13-22
- 378What will you give in exchange for your life? – Mark 8:31-38
- 379Figuring out your relationship with God – Mark 1:9-15
- 380LGBTQ Christians reflect the glory of Jesus Christ – 2 Corinthians 4:1-6
- 381We want to recruit you – 1 Corinthians 9:16-23
- 382Community Question: How do you make spiritual resolutions?
- 383Change your heart & your life – Mark 1:14-20
- 384You knit me together – Psalm 139
- 385New Year, New You
- 386Mary’s understanding of God – Luke 1:47-55
- 387This is God’s good news – Isaiah 61:1-4
- 388John the Baptist & Building on Queer Activism – Mark 1:1-8
- 389Your oppression is not your fault – Isaiah 64:1-9
- 390Can you be anti-LGBTQ and a Christian? – Matthew 25:31-46
- 391Listener Questions: How do you know it’s OK to be transgender?
- 392Faith & Justice – Amos 5:18-24
- 393Transgender & Christian 2017
- 394Why Should Christians Talk About Sex?
- 395Don’t get trapped by anti-LGBTQ Christians – Matthew 22:15-22
- 396God’s Comfort – Isaiah 25:1-9
- 397Queer Christians are the cornerstone of the Kingdom – Matthew 21:33-46
- 398Jesus takes no sh*t – Matthew 21:23-27
- 399The Generosity of God – Matthew 20:1-16
- 400The Exodus didn’t happen. The Exodus is true. – Exodus 14:19-31
- 401Back to the (Queer Christian) Basics
- 402Love Is An Action – Romans 12:9-21
- 403A Holy Ruckus – Exodus 1:8-2:10
- 404Is gay sex defiling? – Matthew 15:10-20
- 405A Depressed Prophet – 1 Kings 19:9-14
- 406Wrestling with God – Genesis 32:22-31
- 407The Kingdom of Heaven is like… – Matthew 13:44-46
- 408Wild Goose 2017
- 409Why you should read the Bible queerly
- 410Welcoming Churches – Matthew 10:40-42
- 411Pride Month 2017
- 412LGBTQ Suffering & Pulse Shooting, one year later – Romans 5:1-8
- 413LGBTQ People Are Made In God’s Image – Genesis 1:1 – 2:4
- 414One Queer Body – 1 Corinthians 12:12-13
- 415Easter 2017
- 416Palm Sunday & Holy Week 2017
- 417Resurrection Miracles – John 11:1-45
- 418Queering The Bible
- 419The power of queer community – Genesis 12:1-4
- 420When I kept silent… – Psalm 32
- 421Transfiguration: Jesus Comes Out – Matthew 17:1-9
- 422What does it mean to be God’s temple? – 1 Corinthians 3:10-11, 16-23
- 423Will you choose life? – Deuteronomy 30:15-20
- 424What does it mean to be a light? – Isaiah 58:7-10
- 425What does the Lord require? – Micah 6:1-8
- 426Identity
- 427Advent, Christmas, and Waiting for 2017
- 428Speak in the name of the Lord – James 5:7-10
- 429Psalms, Kings, and Donald Trump – Psalm 72:1-7, 18-19
- 430Self Care in the Christian Lectionary
- 431An important Transgender Day of Remembrance message for Christians
- 432God’s Vision for a New Earth – Isaiah 65:17-25
- 433“The Bible says weird things about marriage” – Luke 20:27-38
- 434Sodom & Gomorrah – Isaiah 1:10-18
- 435Is it all about getting into heaven?
- 436What does it mean to be inspired? – 2 Timothy 3:14 – 4:2
- 437This is my good news … God’s word cannot be imprisoned – 2 Timothy 2:8-13
- 438God did not give you a spirit of timidity! – 2 Timothy 1:6-14
- 439Don’t Worry Be Happy? – 1 Timothy 6:6-19
- 440What the F*#k Do You Do with Money? Luke 16:1-13
- 441Changing God’s Mind – Exodus 32:7-14
- 442You are not ruined – Jeremiah 18:1-11 & Philemon 1-21
- 443Psalm 68:4-7,10-11 – God’s Recurring Priorities
- 444How do you justify Romans? LGBT Clobber Passage
- 445Love & Freedom – Galatians 5:1,13-18
- 446“Go Off Script” – on the Orlando Massacre at Pulse Nightclub
- 447How to go from oppressor to ally – Galatians 1:11-24
- 448Is this from God? Galatians 1:1-12
- 449Queer Virtue: An interview with Rev Liz Edman
- 450What we learned from 3 years of queering the Bible
- 451Obey God – Acts 5:27-41
- 452Doubting Thomas – John 20:19-31
- 453Are you a new creation? – 1 Corinthians 5:17-21
- 454What’s your burning bush? Exodus 3:1-8
- 455Sassy Jesus Gets Sh*t Done – Luke 13:31-35
- 456Piety or Politics? – Romans 10:8-13 & Luke 4:1-13
- 457Prophetic Stories – Isaiah 6:1-18
- 458Gifts for the Common Good – 1 Corinthians 12:4-11
- 459Different Types of Activism – Isaiah 42:1-9
- 460The Light In Us: John 1:1-18
- 461Submit to What?? Colossians 3:12-21
- 462Self-Care and the Holidays
- 463The Body of Christ Has AIDS
- 464Queer Theology Synchroblog 2015 Announcement
- 465What Kind of God? Psalm 146:7-10
- 466A New Heaven and A New Earth: Revelation 21:1-6
- 467Your Faith Has Made You Well: Mark 10:46-52
- 468The Nones Are All Right: an interview with Kaya Oakes
- 469Make the Work of Our Hands Last: Psalm 90:12-17
- 470Welcome the Children: Mark 10:2-16
- 471Weep and Moan: James 5:1-6
- 472A Place for Anger: Psalm 54
- 473Faith Without Works Is Dead: James 2:14-18
- 474Who Do You Favor? // James 2:1-5
- 475Does Queer Sex Make You Unclean? – Mark 7:1-8,14-15, 21-23
- 476Does this offend you? – John 6:60-69
- 477Wisdom is a Woman – Proverbs 9:1-6
- 478It’s Okay to Not be Okay – 1 Kings 19:4-8
- 479Use Your Gifts – Ephesians 4:1-16
- 480Queering Theology
- 481With His Body – Ephesians 2:11-22
- 482I Am Not A Prophet – Amos 7:12-15
- 483Shake It Off, Shake It Off – Mark 6:1-13
- 484What Does Healing Look Like? Mark 5:21-43
- 485Pride is a virtue
- 486Even When Your Family Doesn’t Get It: Mark 3:20-35
- 487God Did Not Give You A Spirit of Fear – Romans 8:14-17
- 488The Power of Community
- 489When Queer People Love Each Other, There God Is: 1 John 4:11-16
- 490Nothing God Makes Is Unclean: Acts 10
- 491What Does Solidarity Look Like? – Acts 9:26-31
- 492Queer People Bring Salvation: Acts 4:8-12
- 493Jesus’s Body Matters – Luke 22:35-48
- 494A Community of Care – Acts 4:32-35
- 495An Empty Tomb? // Easter 2015
- 496Why Do We Do This? Maundy Thursday
- 497Stories Can Change the World
- 498Your Sassy Gay BFF? – Psalm 137
- 499Bodies Are More Valuable Than Windows – John 2:13-25
- 500Jesus Comes Out – Mark 9:2-10
- 501We Are Christ’s Ambassadors – 2 Corinthians 5:20-6:2
- 502Behold I Am Doing Something New! Isaiah 43:18-19, 21-22, 24-25
- 503God Is To Be Praised: Psalm 146:1-6
- 504Marriage is a Distraction: 1 Corinthians 7:32-35
- 505After John Went To Jail: Mark 1:14-15
- 506Your Body Is A Temple: 1 Corinthians 6:13-15, 17-20
- 507Happy New Year 2015!
- 508Advent: What Are We Waiting For
- 509Mary, the Fierce Mother of God – Luke 1:46-48, 49-54
- 510What Kind Of Person Do You Want To Be? – 2 Peter 3:8-14
- 511Trust Your Experiences – 1 Corinthians 1:3-9
- 512Who Gets Eternal Life? – Matthew 25:31-46
- 513God Wants You To Be Happy – Psalm 128:1-5
- 514Does God Really Hate Worship Bands? – Amos 5:18-24
- 515All Saints Day – Matthew 5:1-12
- 516God’s Destruction – Exodus 22:20-26
- 517Need and Plenty – Philippians 4:12-14
- 518The Kingdom Is Ours – Matthew 21:33-43
- 519Survive/Thrive
- 520Paul’s Ambiguous Message – Philippians 1:20-24
- 521How Do You Know What Is True? – Exodus 14:19-31
- 522Let No Debt Remain – Romans 13:8-10
- 523Fire In Our Bones – Jeremiah 20:7-9
- 524Put Your Body On the Line – Romans 12:1-7
- 525Is America A City On A Hill? – Isaiah 56:1, 6-8
- 526Redefine The Missionary Position – Romans 10:5-15
- 527Share & Share Alike
- 528“We Were Never Meant to Survive”
- 529God is On Our Side – Jeremiah 20:10-13
- 530God Is Your Wingman – Genesis 1:1-2:4
- 531Get A Bigger Vision – Acts 2:1-21
- 532Mary Was With Them – Acts 1:12-14
- 533A Comforter Will Come – John 14:15-21
- 534Repent & Be Saved! – Acts 2:14-41
- 535When the Work Begins – Luke 24:13-35
- 536And There Were No Needy Among Them – Acts 2:42-47
- 537Unlikely Witnesses – Matthew 28:1-10
- 538Jesus Steals a Donkey – Matthew 21:1-11
- 539Bodies Matter – Ezekiel 37:1-14
- 540Children of Light – Ephesians 5:8-14
- 541The Kingdom is Bigger – John 4:5-42
- 542God Is On Our Side – Psalm 121
- 543The Temptation of Christ (and Us) – Matthew 4:1-11
- 544Jesus Comes Out – Matthew 17:1-9
- 545God’s Temple – 1 Corinthians 3:16-23
- 546Feeding the Head & the Heart
- 547Salt of the Earth – Matthew 5:13-16
- 548The Low Class & Low Life Followers of God – 1 Corinthians 1:26-31
- 549Come & Follow – Matthew 4:12-23
- 550Come & See – John 1:29-42
- 551Marking Moments – Matthew 3:13-17
- 552Sanding Down the Edges John 1:1-18
- 553What Kind of King? Isaiah 9:2-7
- 554What Child Is This? Matthew 1:18-24
- 555Waiting on Advent
- 556Prepare the Way of the Lord – Matthew 3:1-12
- 557Choosing to Die – Luke 23:33-43
- 558War on Who? – Luke 21:5-19
- 559Transgender Day of Remembrance 2013
- 560All Saints Day 2013
- 561What about sin? – Luke 28:9-14
- 562Do the Easy Thing – 2 Kings 5:1-15
- 563Fan the Flame – 2 Timothy 1:1-14
- 564Names – Luke 16:19-31
- 565Is There a Balm in Gilead? – Jeremiah 8:18-9:1
- 566Where do you fit in? – Luke 15:1-10
- 567A Cost Involved: Luke 14:25-33
- 568Missing the Point – Hebrews 13:1-8, 15-16
- 569What Will You Be Called? – Isaiah 58:9b-14
- 570Run The Race – Hebrews 11:29-12:2
- 571What Worship Is Required? – Isaiah 1:10-20
- 572Communal Tradition – Psalm 107
- 573What Are You Asking For? Luke 11:1-13
- 574What’s Your Role? Luke 10:38-42
- 575It’s In Your Heart: Deut 30:9-14
- 576Shake It Off – Luke 10:1-11
- 577Passing the Mantle – 2 Kings 2:1-2, 6-14
- 578Got Demons? – Luke 8:26-39
- 579How are sins forgiven? Luke 7:36-8:3
- 580Don’t Ask Permission: Galatians 1:11-24
- 581Which Gospel do you follow? – Galatians 1:1-12
- 582Holy Flamers: Pentecost Sunday 2013
- 583Introducing Queer Theology’s Weekly Bible Podcast - Psalm 23
- 584Faith In Action & Costly Conversion: Acts 16:16-34
We delve into the complex interplay between church teachings, gender identity, and masculinity. As we explore the subtle (or not so subtle!) messages received in church environments regarding gender roles, we look at the impact of gender segregation and the challenges of navigating masculinity in a world filled with conflicting expectations. Shannon’s book, “No One Taught Me How to Be a Man,” comes out April 15, so this conversation emphasizes the importance of redefining masculinity and gender identity. We are advocating for a more inclusive understanding of gender that allows for personal expression and self-discovery not confined, or defined, by Christian ideas of what are masculine or feminine.
Takeaways
- Messages about gender in church are often subtle and sneaky.
- Gender segregation in church settings reinforces patriarchal structures.
- Navigating masculinity involves conflicting societal expectations.
- The solution to masculinity isn’t to double down on traditional roles.
- Self-discovery in gender identity is a personal journey.
- Trans experiences can teach valuable lessons about masculinity.
- Gender expression should be intentional and authentic.
- It’s important to hold gender identities loosely and explore them.
- Conversations about gender should be inclusive and open-ended.
- The journey of understanding gender is ongoing and evolving.
Chapters
(04:25) The Impact of Gender Segregation
(10:38) Navigating Masculinity and Expectations
(18:24) Redefining Masculinity and Gender Identity
(26:41) The Journey of Self-Discovery and Gender Expression
Resources:
- Order Shannon’s new book, No One Taught Me How to Be a Man
- Join our online community at Sanctuary Collective Community
If you want to support the Patreon and help keep the podcast up and running, you can learn more and pledge your support at patreon.com/queertheology
This transcript was generated by AI and may contain errors or omissions.
(9s):
Welcome to the Queer Theology Podcast. I’m Brian G Murphy. And I’m father Shannon, T l Kearns. We’re the co-founders of Queer Theology dot com and your hosts From Genesis, revelation. The Bible declares good news to LGBTQ plus people, and we want to show you how tuning In each week on Sunday for conversations about Christianity, queerness and transness, and how they can enrich one another. We’re glad you’re here. Hello. Hello. Welcome back to the Queer Theology Podcast. This week we are gonna be talking about church and theology and gender. So exciting, exciting things. We’re getting ready for the release of my new book. No One Taught Me How to Be a Man, but a trans man’s experience reveals about masculinity.(50s):
It comes out in just two weeks from when we’re recording this on April 15th. So it, it’s available for pre-order now if you wanna get that. And so we thought it would be a good time to talk about church and gender and all of those fun things. So Brian, I’m curious for you, like when you think about church and gender, especially growing up, what kind of messages did you get? I, I, I feel like I know your ans my your answer to this of like, the messages that you got at home were very different from the messages that you got at church. Yeah. And so I wonder if you could just talk about that a little Bit. Well, I think the messages I got at church were subtle and sneaky.(1m 32s):
It wasn’t until, I don’t know, when I was maybe like in high school or college that my mom pointed out to me. Oh yeah. Like they start segregating Sunday school by gender starting in fifth grade. And from that point on, boys are never taught by women. Like, and the, in the group, in the groups, in the combined group settings, like a man is always teaching. And then when you have like your breakouts, it’s like men lead the men’s, the boys groups and women lead the, the girls groups. And it had just like, not occurred to me that part of the reason for that was to keep women from teaching even like 13-year-old boys.(2m 19s):
Yeah. I just as growing up thought like, oh, like, it’s like fun to be with the other boys, like boys and boys together and girls and girls together. Like, that’s just like how it is. Even though as like a closeted gay boy, I had close friendships with people who were girls. And so like, but I, I just like, I, I never questioned what function, like gender segregated classes or small groups might have, other than it being just sort of like a positive thing. And my mom was like, oh yeah, that’s like definitely part of fourth, this theology that like, women can’t teach men including teenage boys. And that just sort of like blew my mind.(3m 0s):
And I think that like had she not pointed that out to me, I might not have ever stopped to even think about that. Right. And I know that, like, obviously I know that sexism is a thing, but like that particular way of like the ways in which small groups Sunday schools were like leveraged subtly in, in service of like the patriarchy just totally, totally slipped my, slipped my view. And so then I, I think that that, that was sort of like my church’s approach was like a very sort of like show don’t tell. They never outright said women can’t be trusted. They’re the lesser stacks, but they definitely like the ways in which they talked about men or women in terms of like nurturing and caring and the family and men being strong and leaders and protectors.(3m 55s):
It was all this sort of like subtle reinforcement that like, definitely like wheeled its way into us, but without having to ever say like, men should be this way and, and women should be this way. And, and one is better than the other. But like the message that you walk away with is like, well, I never saw a woman preach before. Right. Like, but I, but I did, like, I, like Susan Tawa was like the, I don’t know what her title was, but like, she like helped with music and like, she would kind of talk like she was around and like, I had, like, I had relationships with female leaders, whether they were staff people or like college volunteers, but they were always like, upon reflection, like informal leader mentorship relationships, just ’cause I like gravitated towards those people.(4m 44s):
They like didn’t actually have any authority over me and definitely weren’t in any sort of like decision making capacity in the organization. And so that’s just like a, a snapshot of the messages that I got from church. Yeah. And I imagine too that because there was so much gender segregated space, you’re also getting messages about gender simply by being segregated. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Like yeah, like that, that is also the sneaky kind of influence too. And it, it, it feels all like, like it is true, right? That sexual orientation and gender and gender identity are like two separate things.(5m 27s):
Like, and also they’re very much like wrapped up in one another that a lot of the ways in which my, like gayness or bisexuality is policed is around gendered expectations. Right. Like, I’m not like being a man in the correct way. And a lot of the ways in which that, like, that gets seen or things get processed is like via my gendered relationships with other genders. Right. Like I, I remember there was this, we took this, we rode our bikes from, from Maryland to North Carolina one summer, And I just like was friends with a lot of the girls. I would like ride ride my bike with a group of like four girls and one other guy maybe. And I remember I was at one point like sort of like lounging on a girl in the hotel, like on our last like few days in North Carolina.(6m 14s):
And, And I don’t know if like the, the youth director said this to me or said this to someone about me or said it to my parents, but like, somehow it got back to me that like, someone had called me like a Casanova. ’cause I was like always with the girls And I was like, I’m just a gay boy. Like, like, but like the fact that I was like spending time with girls, like could, in this world you could only be read through like the lens of like, ladies man, which was just like fa fascinating. Yeah. I’m, I as you’re saying that, right? Like, I’m remembering my summer mission trip from hell that I talked about in, in at length and in the margins.(6m 56s):
Right. And there was, I also got in trouble for hanging out primarily with the girls because I was violating gender expectations. Yeah. Right. Like, because I was visibly gender nonconforming. Something about me hanging out with the girls violated the norms of that community, even though technically I was doing what I was supposed to be doing. Right. Like, I, I wasn’t hanging out with the boys, which was also frowned upon. Yeah. Right. So I, I I, And I share that because like, I, I think that this is why, this is why like gender and evangelical spaces is so fucked up, right.(7m 41s):
Because it’s so, it’s almost impossible to do it. Right? Yes. I I I have a story about that also. Yeah. No matter who you are, right. Like the, you there is always these like bizarre rules that you find yourself violating without intending to because like the rules aren’t real. Yeah. Right. And they’re not, they’re, they’re like made up in some white cis man’s head Right. Of like what he thinks masculinity and femininity should look like. And so that then gets enforced on everyone else. Like, even though it’s not even real for cis folks. Yeah. And I think that that’s what’s so interesting And I it varies from person to person, right.(8m 26s):
Like, like leader to leader. Because I remember in, in seventh through eighth grade, I had a girlfriend at church and we were like together a lot. I mean, we only ever, it was months before we made out. We had our first kiss at, at church camp. But like I was, I don’t know what that was doing. I was like, probably not all that into her, but like, we were at least like holding hands and had our arms around each other a lot. And I remember in like seventh or eighth grade, like once or twice, people making comments about sort of like us being like attached at the hip. And it, it was like, it was like said in kind of like a bad way. Like we were spending like too much time together or we were like too close or we were like too physically affectionate with one another and like, maybe that was like starting to border on like sinful or lustful or something.(9m 12s):
But then like fast forward a few years, I’m on this bike trip and I’m like laying on a girl’s lap and that a different leader is telling is calling me like a Casanova in a positive way. And I, I I, in hindsight, I wonder if like in seventh or eighth grade, they hadn’t clocked that I was queer yet. And so being too sexual was like a bad thing. But by like 10th grade they were starting to wonder maybe I was queer. And so me being close with a woman, they wanted to sort of like Yeah. Contextualize that in sort of a like, oh, this must be romance. We’re gonna positively reward this behavior because we want, we want you to say like, oh, you can do it like you with these ladies.(9m 55s):
And like Yeah. It’s just so, ugh. I was 14. Like, get off my back. Yeah. Yeah. I mean I, I think like you, I grew up in a church that like talked about gender all the time without ever talking about gender. Right. And so it was also like super sneaky and super, you know, under the radar did lots and lots of things that were gender segregated. And like as a trans kid who didn’t have language for that, I just remember always feeling out of place. Right? Yeah. Because I was expected to be in certain spaces, but then I would get in those spaces and be like, I dunno what to do in this space.(10m 36s):
Like, I’m deeply uncomfortable at the 17th baby shower of the year for, you know, 20 something year olds. Like, can I please go play foosball with the boys? But, and, and then, and you know, lots of things about like leadership. There were a lot of conversations about leadership, I think especially because I was a kid that was loud and upfront and very much gravitated toward the leadership role. And I do, like, I will give my youth pastor credit, like he gave me a lot of leeway and space to be myself And I think protected me from some folks who did not want me doing those things. Yeah.(11m 16s):
But I definitely also got the sense of like, yes, you can do that because you are doing music or drama or whatever less. So when you’re doing other things though though, I, I do remember when I came, I did an internship at the church that I grew up in my late in my, maybe my sophomore year of college because I was studying youth ministry and in my youth ministry classes at college, I, so I’m getting a degree in youth ministry. And every single year in almost all of the classes, they would say to the people that they assumed were women in these classes. You can get this degree, but you can never be a youth pastor.(11m 57s):
So you’re letting me get a degree in youth ministry while telling me I can never use second degree. Oh my god. I’m like, oh, so you’ll take my money. But anyway, so I had to do an internship and so I went back to the church that I grew up in And I remember they let me like lead, we went on a beach retreat and they like, let me lead all of the bible study sessions for kids of like all genders. But then I got back to college And I tried to tell my, my advisors like what I had done over my summer and a, they like ignored all of the stuff that I had done and then asked me what I wanted to do when I graduated. And I was telling them like, I’m feeling called to doing like theater and, and using whatever.(12m 43s):
And they’re like, oh, you know, you should really work with children. I’m like, I don’t, I don’t want to work with children. And they were like, no, but like that’s really you, like you should work with kids. And I was like, I don’t think you’ve ever seen me work with kids. No one wants me working with children. It turns out that I did actually then work with children quite a bit Yeah. In my career. But, but it was this sense of like, I I, I remember really distinctly standing in front of them saying like, this is what I feel called to. And them just ignoring that because they had in their mind of like what women did quote unquote. Yeah. And again, it was like really sneaky. You know, I, I’m thinking about like, when I was, when I was doing research for my book, I read John Eldridges Wild at Heart, which now has had its 20th anniversary.(13m 34s):
It has a fancy new updated edition with even more homophobia in trans great than the original. But you know what I was so struck by in this book, you know, which has sold like 20 million copies, right? So many churches have, have done book studies around this book is that I think there are some ways that Eldridge like really names the problem of that a lot of men experience of like being bored and angry and disconnected and not knowing why. And so I was reading that and I’m like, yeah, this is great. And then he’s, his solution is like, I don’t know, go camp a lot and buy a ceremonial braveheart sword and do more dude stuff.(14m 22s):
Yeah. And like that will fix you. And I just, I, I remember, you know, reading that and thinking like, how depressing would it be if you were already struggling to read this book and feel seen? And then to have the solution be like, probably the thing that you’ve already tried to do that didn’t work. Right? Yeah. Like, you know, you’re, you’ve already tried to like be a better leader in your household. I’m using air quotes or like be more spiritual or like do more dude stuff. And like that hasn’t fixed it. And so now you’re reading this book that then says, because that hasn’t fixed it, you are like failing at masculinity and you’re probably sinning too.(15m 5s):
Like, it’s just such a Yeah. It’s bad for men and it’s bad for like everyone that men interact with because then like no wonder they’re angry. Yeah. I, I’ve been thinking a lot because of your book and its title, No One Taught Me How to Be a Man, like, who taught me how to be a man. And like the message I received around masculinity growing up. And I remember being like, feeling very adrift. Like there were these messages that I was getting from pop culture that was like, you should be suave and you should be like sexually active and you should be macho. And then I was getting these messages from church that were like, you should be chased and you should be like a leader, but in sort of a like servant leader humble sort of way.(15m 52s):
And I was like, which like, you should be like not having any sex. You should be having lots of sex. I’m like, which one is it? And, and, And I will pre pre preface this by saying like, my dad And I have like a great relationship now, but like growing up I like didn’t like, he had like a set of things that he liked to do probably that he did with his dad. Like he fished and he played football. And so like if I was like willing to do one of those things, like we could spend quality time together, but like he didn’t know how to talk to me about like my interests. He definitely didn’t know how to talk about either of our interior worlds. Like, I even remember being like, oh, I’m like starting to like grow facial hair. Like I don’t know what to do with this. Like, I think somebody just like started stealing my dad’s disposable razors and like shaving.(16m 35s):
I mean, I, I have very fine facial hair, not very much of it. So I could get away with just sort of like shaving in the shower without any shaving lotion. And then at some point, my grandma bless her heart one year for Christmas, she gave every single grandkid a razor. So like my cousin who was like pre like, did not have any facial hair and like my other, my youngest cousin and then my oldest cousin, like, had been shaving for years and years and years and probably had his own razor. Like we all got razors. And so now I was like, oh, like now I have a razor. And so like maybe at that point I started like getting my own shaving cream, but there was like a long, like many years where I was just sort of like secretly shaving, which like feels like I don’t, like why was I doing that? Like why, like, did, did Noah notice?(17m 16s):
Like, it was just like weird, you know? And in my dad’s defense, I don’t think he had a very great relationship with his dad. Like his dad was also just sort of like macho. And, and so it’s, it’s I And I, And I think in the nineties and two thousands, like the message was like, well that makes you gay. Like if you don’t have a good relationship with your dad, it makes you gay. But like, I know a lot of people in the nineties who didn’t have good relationships with their dads. But also like the, the thing that has like made my dad And I have like an incredible relationship now is like us being able to like, talk about things beyond the surface level and for him to like show up and support me in like, all areas of my life and for him to like grow a little and me to grow a little.(18m 1s):
And like the funny thing is now like, because we have such a good relationship, like I, I like want to go fishing with him sometimes in a way that, like when I was a kid, I just absolutely hated it. But I mean also I’m a, you know, I’m maybe more more mature now, but it’s like, because we had this sort of like mutual relationship, like it, it allows us to sort of like see each other. And so like the, the solution to like the problems of like masculinity is not to like double down on all of the things that cause the problems. Like Yeah. Harshness of becoming an island onto yourself. Not like, not being vulnerable, not collaborating. Like we, that’s just like crazy. Like all the things that cause the problems that are being proposed as solutions.(18m 41s):
And I’m not like any of those queer now, but I have like a great relationship with my dad and it’s not at all because like we got a sword or like went on a men’s retreat, you know, or like, he like taught me how to read the Bible, like disciples and whatever that that means. It’s like, ’cause we care about each other and we figured out how to talk about that and we like show up for each other. Yeah. Yeah. I I think that you’re right, like the thing that I’m really advocating for in the book is like not a one size fits all depiction of masculinity, but like an opening up of like what masculinity means and can look like, because I think that that’s what’s actually healthier for folks. Yeah. Right.(19m 21s):
And I think too that like, I don’t know, as someone who very much identifies as a man, I also think the solution isn’t, And I know that this is controversial in some queer spaces, like the solution also isn’t to like abolish gender, right? Yeah. Like I, I personally believe that there are always gonna be people that identify within the binary somehow, and that that’s not a bad thing, right? That, but opening up like what that means and what that looks like and how we can embody and inhabit that while also paying attention to like how we show up for people of other genders. Like that’s where the real work is. And as someone who like very much had to fight for my masculinity and to claim my identity, like I, I get really like a little crabby when people are like, you shouldn’t exist.(20m 10s):
Like, we should just get rid of gender entirely. And it’s like, no, actually, like my gender actually matters quite a bit to me. And I really had to work to figure out what it means to me and how to like carry it well and hopefully in a way that like doesn’t do harm to people of other genders. And I think that there’s a lot of people that at least feel, if not comfortable, they feel like, oh, like this is a word that does, describes me, right? That this is a word that I inhabit, whether that’s masculine or feminine or man or woman. And obviously of course there are also lots of people for whom those words don’t feel right. But yeah, I I I think it’s, it’s complicated to say like, what, what does this and what can this look Like?(20m 56s):
Yeah. And I mean, I feel like I have bit of a broken record here, but I just feel like trans folks in general and like trans guys more specifically, and you even more specifically have like, taught me so much about like, I like what it means to be a man, but also like what it means to be a person. Like what it means to have a body, what it means to think like critically about open-heartedly about gender. Like I, I, one of my, my first roommate in New York and one of my best friends how we met, like came out as trans while we were living together. And like then like via him, I just ended up with tons of trans guy friends and going to the a trans health conference and really sort of like thinking critically about gender and my gender and my body and like what gender affirming care looks like for trans folks and what gender affirming care looks like for cis folks and like gender euphoria and like I is wearing a dress or painting my nails, like giving myself and like wearing makeup, like giving myself permission to experiment with those things.(21m 59s):
But also like, not necessarily having those things necessarily mean that I am a woman or that those parts like have to are like inherently feminine, right? Like I can be a man who wears makeup, a man who with painted nails. Yeah. Like, I think that there’s a real gift there to sort of complicating our conversations around gender, you know, and, and you talked about sort of like, there are always gonna be, you think like some people who fit within the binary And I think even calling trans guys or trans women sort of like binary, binary trans folks, right? Like, I don’t know that even that feels a little reductive that like, like if gender is a spectrum, right?(22m 39s):
Like people exist on all points of that spectrum and just because someone identifies as a man and not non-binary, just because someone wears in our culture traditionally masculine clothes, like also like, doesn’t necessarily even, you know, that person is like, believes that gender is a binary or in all aspects of your, their lives as like ascribed to the gender binary, right? Like I, you know, I think about you, you’re someone who is like definitely a man, right? And also, like, you’re kind and you’re thoughtful and you’re creative and like sometimes you’re grumpy, but also there’s like a real softness to you. And I think a, those are things that are like often not ascribed to like men in our patriarchal culture.(23m 24s):
And also like why shouldn’t they be male traits? And there is like, yeah, it doesn’t make you, you less of a man or those traits less masculine, but it just is sort of like a whole big picture, right? And I wanna like, take all of it into consideration. And I, what I appreciate from you and many of the trans folks that I have learned from is like, we don’t have to seed compassion to femininity and we don’t have to seed leadership to masculinity. And perhaps like some folks, and sometimes I’ve wondered like, am I non-binary or am I a gender or gender queer? Like you can have a constellation of different traits and some like, those could maybe even be separate from how you like, identify inwardly.(24m 8s):
And that like gender is like so much richer than like a checkbox. And like there’s like some real value in like thinking critically about your own gender. And I will say like, there’s, I’m so excited about your book because like as a cis person, our four cis people are for people who have like mostly thought of themselves as cis or like are unsure. There’s like some real power in like learning about gender or hearing about gender and generally masculinity specifically, like from a trans person that I like, I’m thinking about being at the Philly Trans Health Conference in like circa 2009 and being like out to dinner with like 12 people and being like the only cis guy there.(24m 52s):
And just sort of like the different types of conversations that get had in a, in a room full of trans people and one in one cis person. Right. Or to, or there were times where we were like, I’m pretty sure people just like assumed that I was trans because there just like, that weren’t many cis guys at the trans health conference. And So just sort of like, what does it mean, like to have people assume that you’re trans and then to like figure out how to navigate that in a respectful way, like in an honest way, but also like not in a defensive way and like what does it mean to be trans? And like what would that mean? Most people can’t like transport themselves into a room of 12 trans folks and be the el cis person there. And so I think like your book is a great moment, like a great learning opportunity for folks to sort of like, see it through, like to see the world and to see gender and to see masculinity through this sort of specific lens that I think has a really universal application.(25m 46s):
I know it’s been so meaning like the work of you and other trans folks has been so meaningful to me in my own sort of like gendered and embodied experience. Yeah. And I think that that’s like the biggest thing that I hope that this book does for folks is like, just offers the opportunity to reflect. Yeah. Right? Because I think that, I’ve said this before, but like one of the great gifts of of being trans is that you get to be intentional about how you inhabit and embody your gender. Like, because nothing is assumed and for me, like no one wants me to be a man. Yeah. And so I get to like be whatever kind of man I want because like, it doesn’t really matter, right?(26m 29s):
Like, yeah, people don’t expect me to be in that space anyway, so like, I’m just gonna show up how I wanna show up. But I think that that’s been a real gift of, of saying like, oh, I can be this thing without having to like, to take on any of the things that other people say I have to take on And I can just like be myself. And, And I will say like, that has gotten significantly easier now that I primarily, you know, quote unquote pass as a, as a cis person, like that was definitely harder. It was harder to like inhabit myself in my fullness when I was still early in transition and constantly being mistaken for a gender I didn’t identify as, like, that was a lot harder.(27m 15s):
But now that I’ve moved past that stage, it’s like I just don’t worry now, right? Like, I don’t worry if someone’s gonna think I’m effeminate or gay or whatever, like, that doesn’t bother me. But I wanna inhabit and embody my gender in a way that feels the most comfortable to me. And I, and that’s what I want for everyone, right? Like, I want everyone to be able to walk into a room and feel like they’re not policing their own gestures, that they’re not worrying about how they look or how they’re moving their hands or what their voice sounds like, right? Like that, that they can just show up and be seen as who they are and be welcomed in those spaces. And I think that what it takes to get there is for all of us to, to approach gender with more intention, and especially for men to approach gender with more intention.(28m 7s):
Yeah. I’m, I think, I think there’s like something really wholly about the like reflecting and the like questioning and the, like, sitting in the uncertainty of it all. I mean, I, I know that like when I found the word queer, found the word bisexual, right? It like, I was like, oh, that’s like something that like makes sense to me. That’s just feels like it describes who I am. That is a way, like way by which I can find other people and like it, but even, even in that, right? Like, I don’t know, I’m like technically bisexual, but sometimes, like the word gay feels like more accurate. Sometimes the word queer feels more accurate, right? Like, so I kinda like hold all those labels loosely.(28m 49s):
And I feel like with gender, like I, I I hold things even more loosely that like, am I cis? Am I, am I trans? Am I a gender? Am I gender queer? Am I non-binary? Like, for me at least feels like, like coming to a hard and fast like decision around like an ident like a gendered identity that is right for me feels less important to me as does sort of like holding it all kind of lightly and asking questions and experimenting and trying things on and seeing like, if I do this, how does that feel? How do, like, if I do that, how does that feel? How can I, what qualities in people in general do I admire?(29m 32s):
What qualities in men do I admire? What qualities in women do I admire? What qualities in gender queer folks do I admire? What do I wanna sort of try on for myself? And sort of existing in sort of like a state of always becoming rather than feeling like I have arrived. And you know, there’s, there’s this, I know, I forget who said it, I think it was a Jewish, a queer Jewish per person was like, you know, we, we like say there’s a blessing in Judaism for, for bread, and it’s like, blessed are you, Adam And I are God sovereign of the universe who like brings forth bread from the earth. But like, obviously like bread doesn’t like literally come from the earth where it’s like wheat and flour and you have to, you have to like make the bread.(30m 17s):
And there’s this, there’s this saying of like, it’s a reminder that like we join in the co-creation of creation like with God And I, And I know you’ve talked about like your transness being this sort of like, you take an active part in co-creating yourself and your gender and your body with God. And that is something that I have like taken on for myself in a less extreme way. I’m not like trans, I’m not on hormones, I’m on medication to keep my hair from falling out, which is like, you know, gender affirming care in its own way. But like, there’s something of this sort of like active ongoing process of like creating ourselves and creating ourselves a new, and the person that I am today is different than the person that I was a year ago and five years ago and 10 years ago.(31m 0s):
And like, that’s like really cool and exciting And I don’t know who I will be in 10 years from now, but I want to get there with some intentionality. And I feel like the questions that you raise in this book are gonna help me, help, help me do that. I hope so, I, I hope that this book becomes an, an invitation to deeper conversation for folks, right? That it’s, it becomes a, that it’s a starting point, not a, not another manual of like ceremonial swords and parties that instead it’s like a, hey, how do we, how do we enter into these conversations? Yeah. So if folks wanna get this, it comes out officially April 15th, Amazon in particular, and some other booksellers in general sometimes send things out early.(31m 46s):
So if you pre-order it, you might actually get it earlier. So hop on there now. You can get it anywhere books are sold. If you go to Queer Theology dot com slash books, it’ll be right at the top of that page. And there’s links to Bookshop and Barnes and Noble and Amazon to help you find those links quickly. But I know we’ve said this before, but pre-sales really help with authors in general. In particular, like new authors, newer authors, authors with marginalized identities to let the publisher know, to let potential booksellers know, like, this is a book that matters. These are stories that matter. These are types of authors that people are like interested in, in taking seriously. And like fortunately is a business, right? And so like, like, yeah, like queer authors get asked to write books because other queer authors sell books.(32m 30s):
And so a think that this book is gonna be really exciting for everyone who is a man or is in love with a man, or knows a man who has had to work with a man. It would probably be more useful for, for men and masculine folks, but I think really for anyone. And also an added bonus of supporting you in particular and queer and trans authors in general. So Queer Theology dot com slash books to find all the links to No One Taught Me How to Be a Man, which comes out on April 15th. And if you happen to be in Minneapolis or thereabouts on April 14th, so the day before it officially releases, I’m gonna be having a launch party at Moon Palace books in Minneapolis.(33m 9s):
You’ll be able to get the book a day early and I’ll be signing, there’s gonna be some special guests and some performances. It’s gonna be a really fun event. So if you wanna come to that Moon Palace books on April 14th and masks are still required at Moon Palace, so tuck a mask in your pocket and come on out. It’s gonna be really fun. Awesome. The Queer Theology Podcast is just one of many things that we do at Queer Theology dot com, which provides resources, community, and inspiration for L-G-B-T-Q Christians and straight cisgender supporters. To dive into more of the action, visit us at Queer Theology dot com. You can also connect with us online on Facebook, Twitter, Tumblr, and Instagram. We’ll see you next week.